--- Page 1 --- Welcome back to the Boomtown podcast. I'm Cameron Walker, your host, broker and owner of Cameron Walker Realty located right here in Huntsville. We love working with you folks that are moving here, so we make this podcast for you. And today with me as always is my fantastic co-host, Megan Hines. So, Megan, today we're going to dive into one of my favorite topics and that impacts some of my favorite clients and talking about relocating and retiring in Huntsville. Absolutely. And a lot of people do this. We get a lot of calls about this and there are reasons for that and they are largely financial. Absolutely. And when we say financial, a lot of times people worry like they're moving to middle of nowhere Alabama, there's nothing going on. Secondarily to that is you get a great quality of life, a lot to do along with saving that money. Absolutely. And you actually did a video on this last year where you really broke down the numbers and there are multiple benefits to living here as a retiree. Some of those are tax benefits. Can we get into those? Yeah, absolutely. So, I did a few videos last year, did a little series, got a lot of views as far as our channel's concerned, and a lot of people calling us and moving here for this. And I actually did it in response to how many people were already reaching out to me in this regard. So, what we see is a lot of people moving here that are already in retirement, approaching retirement, or they're taking that last job and their career step in prep for where do I want to retire? So, they come here with whatever company they're with or accept a new position. And to your point, it is largely to do with financials and a lot of that does have to do with the tax benefits of retiring here in Alabama. So, we'll kind of circle back to some of the traditional cost of living that affect everybody. But when we're looking at retirement tax benefits, there are so many. So, first off, we do not tax social security income in Alabama. So, if you're 65 years or older and you're drawing social security, you're not going to pay any Alabama state income tax on that. That's a huge saving particularly for people coming here from the coastal areas where they're being taxed on that which is always amazing me because you're getting money taxed on money that you already paid taxes on but that's for different that's an argument for a different day. We don't tax the first $6,000 in 401k income and then most if not all defined benefit plans pensions are untaxed as well. So, three of the largest sources of retirement based income are in for people on fixed income are either untaxed or there's a big exemption before you begin getting taxed. Yep. And then and we touch on this a lot, but compared to a lot of bigger markets, the cost of housing is significantly less. So you can sell your home in a bigger market and then you take all that savings into retirement and can use that for entertainment or whatever you want while basing yourself here which you know Huntsville Madison you will have all the amenities that you want and need and you will pay much less for them. Absolutely. So on average here housing's 28% below the national average. Now, whether you're looking for the average house or not, that's a different discussion. But recently, somebody took me off to an additional savings that people that are in advanced years may get versus other areas. What it is is in our market, it's extremely common to have a main level master bedroom or to have a single level home. And in many markets, it's almost impossible to find a single level. If you do, there are so many stairs on the front of the home to get up to that single level or in most cases there's a lot of stairs and it's a two-story home with the master on the second floor. Yeah. And to get something different, be it a main level master, a ranch style home or a home that does not have those stairs on the front, you have to pay additional. Yeah. Whereas here, that's kind of the standard for us. And this has --- Page 2 --- something to do with the amount of space that's available, the fact that Madison and Huntsville both are expanding outward, right? And there's amenities coming to these outer areas as well. Most of the new construction that we're seeing are ranch style homes and we're seeing more and more smaller ones. Because a lot of retirees don't need a giant home. They're actually downsizing as they come here. I mean, we get all kinds. I get people retiring to 4,000 square foot homes, but I also have people requesting, you know, a smaller thing. I do think that there I think in the future, you know, more homes that are like 1500 square feet are there. I don't think there's really enough of those actually because finding something nice at that square footage is tricky. And we have, you know, the population is getting older. I know that when I retire, I don't want to be cleaning a 4,000 square foot house. That's not something that sounds amazing to me at all. But yeah, this is a very good place to retire based on the fact that you can, you know, the space allows for these ranch style homes, which are what retirees want and need. Yeah, absolutely. That's such a great point. And, having worked in having a background in new construction, worked there before, single level homes actually cost more per square foot to build than a two-story home. And so with our land cost being so much lower than they are elsewhere and quite frankly we're very close to where the lumber's cut, we're we have a great labor source. So in general, our houses cost less to build than elsewhere. So you can get an affordable single-level home here to your point where maybe somewhere else they really have to build up to keep any kind of affordability in those pockets. So that's a great point I hadn't really considered. So I'm glad you brought that up. But yeah, so the other thing is retrofitting houses, right? So, as people age, we know some people will wind up with disability or they have mobility issues and it can be difficult to retrofit a house. In many cases, the builders here are already doing what they call three doors. They're 3 foot wide so a walker, wheelchair or cane can go through. The walls are typically reinforced enough where if you did have a two-story home, be it with the main level master or upstairs, you can put in the chairs to go up and down the chair lifts. And then a lot of times if you're building specifically new construction, you can go ahead and have the builder brace for handles inside of like shower stalls. I've had many clients do that. They may not need them today. It might be 20 years before they need them, but they're there when they do. So that's another benefit here. And that's not a high-cost thing to add when you're building. It's if you have to rip out that shower and put in new studs and then rebuild the shower that it costs more. Yeah. Another big concern that people have when they're retiring is access to health care. And I think that we've talked about this before. We have we're we're very great in terms of hospitals and access to that. It can be a little bit more challenging in terms of finding a primary care physician. So, I would and you need that primary care physician because especially as you're getting older, you want to be able to check in with someone and have them be aware of your situation. That can be really important for people. Yeah, for sure. And when we think about like medical, I kind of put it into one of three baskets for each individual. There's the long-term care of something that maybe you do an annual checkup on. You know, you go see your cardiac surgeon or maybe you have eye issues, you go see your eye doctor. But this is beyond what a typical optometrist does. Then there is more that typical optometrist, that family medical practice where you're going to see them periodically, you know, if you're ill or maybe you have to go every so often to reup on your prescription. And then there's the emergency care, surgery, things like that that you --- Page 3 --- don't anticipate coming but do happen. Yeah. And what I'll say is for the last one, Huntsville Hospital is a great option. It actually just got ranked number two in the state by US News and World Report. That just came out, which is great for Huntsville Hospital. They also just announced they're building a $50 million facility in northwest Huntsville. So, they're continuing to expand throughout the area, offer additional services to more people. The VA is actually expanding some of their services here, too. That second group, the people of the primary care, that's where we see some challenge. I agree with you, that's something you want to work out in advance before coming here. You know, there's no way Megan and I can sit here and come up with every idea for every type of doctor somebody can need in every part of town. you need to do that research, reach out in advance, go ahead and get set up with them because you need to know what insurance they take, things like that. But the one I started with is actually really interesting. We're an hour and a half from UAB in Birmingham, one of the nation and quite frankly the world's premier hospitals. And a lot of people here and in all parts of Alabama and even outside the state go there for those one-off treatments or those once annual treatments. So my dad has some really unique eye issues and he goes to the eye institute there once a year and he lives about two hours outside of Birmingham, not in our immediate area but another in Alabama. And like for him that's just something he does once a year. Matter of fact, I talked to him the other day when they were there and they were out going out and having lunch at a different place. They were kind of making a day of it. But you do have access to literally worldclass facilities here within an hour and a half. So if you do have those specialized needs, you're not far away from that kind of treatment. And we have a lot of specialized needs that you can take care of in town. I had knee surgery here and they did a really good job. But that I mean that we they have they have they have great people for that here. And you can get it done in town. The Huntsville Hospital is very good. Yeah. And they've done a good job of spreading out throughout the area. You have Huntsville Hospital location in Madison. You have one in Athens. There's another hospital there in Athens. So, you're never far away from a hospital here either. At least in the areas that we serve. You know what's more fun than hospitals, Cameron? Golf, and that's a retirement activity, too. Absolutely. So, golf's funny here. In my mind, Madison would be the premier golf community. It seems like the buyer profile for Madison, the buyer profile for Titleist should be a 100% circle in the Venn diagram. There is virtually no golf course in Madison. There is one over by the airport. They're actually trying to get somebody take over management of it. But if you really want to play golf here, you're either over in Owens Crossroads or you're over in Athens. Yeah. And Owens Crossroads really has some gorgeous courses. Yes. And there's I mean there's a there's a golf course in South Huntsville, too. And there's a golf course in North Huntsville. It's the golfiest place. So I there's a lot of golf. There's a lot of We have a lot of people retiring here that are still very active. So, they're not just retiring for the hospitals. We have golf. We also have north of Huntsville, there's a small executive airport. We have people retiring here who are getting into like flying planes and doing a lot of very interesting and entertaining things in their retirement. For sure. We love to brag about our PhD per capita. I guarantee you we have one of the highest pilots license per capita in the US. And we have a ton of people. I mean, gosh, I don't know how many people on my street fly. I mean, and I don't live next to the airport, right? So, know a lot of people with pilots licenses here more --- Page 4 --- than I've known anywhere else. And the one of the big things, golf, any other outdoor activity, be it hiking, biking, whatever, the weather here is really conducive to it. So, while we do have really hot summers and you have to be able to put up with those to be outdoors at those times, we have mild winters and we have really beautiful spring and fall. So, for at least 10 months out of the year, playing golf, getting outdoors, doing these other activities are absolutely on the table. Yeah. And you know the other reason that I think that Huntsville Madison area is becoming a retirement people are coming here to retire is you know it used to be that Florida was the number one the place but Florida's got issues in terms of insurance especially a lot of places in Florida you can't get insurance anymore on a home and Huntsville this area in particular we don't have those issues. insurance is pretty stable around here and you can speak to how this works because I know that you've you you've got into it recently. Yeah, absolutely. So, I'm going go ahead and apologize to the comment section every time I point out the flaws of Florida. I get it, but it is what it is. I just tell them the truth. Florida is really in a bad shape. The the way insurance works is it's state by state, even if it's a national company. And so State Farm is not going to take money from Nebraska and pay for damages in Florida. So Florida's got to cover itself. And these insurance carriers are looking at that. I don't know that State Farm's one of them, but anyway, these insurance carriers look at the they look at the state and they say, "Hey, we're we're not going to insure this state anymore. We're we're at a loss year over-year on this." And the ones that stay, they can't charge coastal Florida what they should or nobody could buy insurance. So now you live four hours inland in Florida and you're paying coastal prices for your insurance. On top of that, you have to get flood insurance if you're in any of the coastal areas and that's costing an arm and a leg. It's never going down. So you have those challenges, too. And then you have people that are getting priced out of there because so many people move down. They're on a fixed income. They're retired. And now we had a guy earlier this year between his property insurance and his property taxes, his annual bill jumped $10,000 a year. Now he's 65. He might live for another 30 years. Do the math. That's insane. How can he accommodate that on a fixed income and that's assuming nothing changes in the future? It it and even if he can accommodate it, it completely changes his lifestyle. He retired as an affluent person who was able to do lots of activities and you take $10,000 a year out of what he's able to do and it's very limiting and it's after tax money. Yeah, you're not, you know, it's not like he gets to write this off more, you know, especially with where standard deductions are now. He's not working. So, it's really a challenge for people down there. So, you've got the insurance issues and then that's assuming you don't get hit by the hurricane. And then you have two other major issues down there. One's the condo situation. Several years ago, there's a huge tragedy where a condo building collapsed and it was due to deferred maintenance. So, Florida's done the right thing and they're forcing these communities and these condos to to make the repairs. The problem is that they were never escrowing for these repairs to begin with, which is how we got to where we're at. So, the musical chair stopped. You're sitting there in the chair and you're getting handed the $80,000 bill as one individual condo owner amongst many to make these massive repairs. You can't sell the condo to get out from underneath this because nobody else wants to buy your $80,000 cash problem. And so you're just stuck. And these are people on fixed income with fixed assets. And the number of people who retire without any true savings. They're they're 100% --- Page 5 --- relying on their pension, social security, what have you. They don't have a cash basis is really staggering. And those people moved to Florida thinking they were going to be able to live this lifestyle just based on their income that's coming in. Now they're completely hosed. And then the third issue are actually HOAs on Florida. The HOAs, I don't know what happened with them, but they just went on the rampage. Florida actually had to pass a law this year stripping some power away from HOAs because they were becoming just absolutely just demagogued so over and just railroading the owners within their associations and finding people more than what the houses are worth. I mean, just insane things they were doing and Florida finally had to put their get a grip on that. But you have people that are already saddled with the problems they inherited and it and it always with the HOAs it comes down to their finances. And that's what I've seen and when I have I have people who are concerned about this because it's a bit in national news and it's also, you know, it's kind of scary the idea that you would give over your autonomy to the HOA and then they might turn on you and ask more money than you have. So, what you have to do is look at the financials of the HOA and make sure that they're solvent, before you make a decision to buy in. Our HOAs around here are actually very reasonable. Like, you know, we have communities with I think McMillan Cove is one of the nicest communities. They got the nicest pool and I don't I think their HOA is like maybe $2,000 a year. Yeah. Like, Right. I I that don't quote me on that, but it's not that that's a very expensive HOA for around here. Like extremely you can get wonderful HOAs with tons of amenities for $400 a year. And most of the HOAs are just like, you know a couple hundred bucks a year. Absolutely. Yeah. One of my favorite communities, and I recently did a video on it, I have some friends that live there and we visit frequently is Heritage Plantation over in Madison. They have two pools, including an Olympic size with lanes. They have two clubhouses, one of which has a full like catering kitchen, all that. Has a gym underneath. They've got tennis courts, basketball courts, playgrounds. They have seven stocked ponds and miles of walking trails, all managed by the HOA. $700 a year. Yeah, it's insane. And matter of fact, had a guy go under contract this week is moving up here from Florida, from Tampa. And when we were going through reviewing the numbers, you know, right before we made the offer, make sure he was comfortable with everything. We were looking at the HOA fee and I said, "Oh, it's 225." And he said, "Oh, per month? That's not bad." I said, "No, per year." And his jaw dropped. He was expecting 225 per month and it's an annual. Yeah. So, this just indicates what people moving here from Florida already expect. And it's not just Florida, it's across the country. And you, you know, our neighborhoods here like they just they don't cover everything. Usually, if you're going to get a higher fee, you're going to wind up in one of those neighborhoods where they are doing exterior maintenance, whether it's yard or the building or covering the roofs, more like a condo association. But by and large, even ours with pool, clubhouse, playground, they're just they're sub $500. Yeah. And and I mean you do worry about the future because you hear about all these horror stories of other markets and that's why I do recommend people looking at the financials of the HOA. But in general I have not seen a lot of of the terror that you see in other markets with this for sure. And you know it's not just housing it's not just HOA or condo fees right or taxes. So, you know, you have to look at the full financial picture of when you move somewhere. We've covered some of the really big stuff, but there's other things. Our gas prices are significantly lower than elsewhere. Our groceries are either on --- Page 6 --- par or slightly below. Our utility costs are right in line with national averages. And we don't see, especially with newer homes, the spikes that you might see in some areas. Yes, we have very hot summers. If you have an older house, you're going to see a spike in your electrical bill come the summer. We have really mild winters. So, unless again you're in an older home or drafty or something like that and we have an unusually cold snap during the winter, you don't typically see a big jump there either. And something that we haven't brought up much in these podcasts, but I think it's a real benefit to you if you're retiring is Huntsville Airport. We're talking about the smaller airport, but you Huntsville airport is a really convenient, easy to use airport. I fly I fly to Europe with my husband's Italian and we go like once a year and I fly out of Huntsville airport every time. I can be there like I could probably get there a half an hour before my flight and fly to Europe which is insane, right? It is the most convenient, easy to use airport and now it flies all over the place. True. I transfer I usually in Atlanta or Washington to get out of the country, but it has direct flights all over the United States and that transfer getting in like checking your bags and and checking in in Huntsville makes the entire flight much easier than if you tried to do that. I had a nightmare situation once where I where I flew out of Nashville and that was, you know, about eight years ago before Huntsville airport was as as good as it is now. So, I I don't think they had a flight for me. I got to the airport 3 hours before my flight and still missed the plane because of, you know, because the airport was packed and it was just craziness and I ended up having to like spend 24 hours in Miami. Almost ruined my vacation. I've never had an issue at Huntsville airport. Yeah, agreed. I've never had an issue flying out of there either. My wife flies out a lot more than I do for work and she hasn't had issues either. We live maybe 10, 15 minutes from it. And I drop her off like I was dropping her off at Walmart. Like it is so easy to You're retiring and you want to be able to still visit the grandkids and get other places in the country because our families are all spread out now. Having a convenient airport is really a great thing. So our airport's so convenient that it is a shortcut for me to go around the airport to get places. So, for any of you that live in the DC metro area and have ever had to fly out of BWI, Dulles, Reagan, if you if you've been there or many other parts of the country and you just heard somebody say going by the airport is the shortcut. You you know how exceptional that is. But you bring up a really good point about our location and how easy it is to get places. Huntsville has this rare wonderful attribute where we are not on the way anywhere directly. We're on a spur. So we have I65 that goes north south, goes from Mobile to Chicago. It's great to get to places like Birmingham all the way down to the beach, go north, go into Nashville, things like that. They're straight line shot. So easy to get to, right? But we're not in the midst of that traffic. If you go to Huntsville, you got off on 565. You meant to go to Huntsville. We were not on your way somewhere else. So we have all the benefit of the commerce that comes by, the ease of travel, but we lack the traffic that comes along with that. So, if you're going down through Birmingham, Birmingham actually has a lower population base. Now, the surrounding area is significantly higher, but people in Birmingham, less people than are in Huntsville, and the traffic is so much worse than Birmingham and I65 and I20 go right through it. So, people that are not going to Birmingham but have to go through Birmingham or there. So, there's a convenience factor and then there's there's not the trade-off of the higher traffic. So, that's really wonderful. You do have the airport. And then you have like what Atlanta's maybe four hours away. Beautiful drive --- Page 7 --- through Mentone and all that. It's easy to get up to Chattanooga and Knoxville. Easy to get over to Memphis. I mean, Nashville's an hour and a half. Two hours. Absolutely. Yep. For sure. And so we go up there all the time. My wife and my kids are in competitive sports, so we a lot of times we compete in Nashville, but we go up there in Christmas time to go up and do the Gaylord Opry Hotel, and we go up during the summer to do the big water parks and stuff. So for us, like Nashville's a day trip. Yeah. And I I mean, if I ever do retire, I don't want to just I want to do stuff. And this is an opportunity. This is a place where you can retire and do a lot of stuff. Go a lot of places. There's a lot of stuff here. You could be in a community with or you could, you know, find yourself in a community with a pool and a clubhouse and just, you know, walk your dog and hang out at the pool. Yeah. I would say Huntsville is really puts the active of an active adult. One of the things that I've learned so much from so many of my clients that have moved here in retirement is how many small clubs and organizations there are to join if I have somebody moving here right now. He's really big in the bike community. Actually sells and imports bikes, but he himself is a biker. He's already made all the contacts, right? I have people that are really into drones and they're now in drone groups. I have a lady that knits. She's in knitting group. I mean there newcomer groups. There are so many ways to get involved in the community here. Yeah. And they're free to low cost, you know. Yeah. Insane. That's the beauty of having a lot of nerds. They do stuff. Very passionate about what their hobbies are for sure. And you know, the outdoors here are amazing. And we talk about hiking a lot. I don't think we give our greenways enough due. So for those of you who don't know what a greenway is, it's a paved path through nature, usually along some kind of water or creek or what have you that can go for miles. There's parking at one end or the other. You can rollerblade, you can walk, you can run, you can push a stroller, you can ride a bike, and it's just gorgeous out there. You pass through all this natural land. And I actually go out and I do at least three miles on a greenway every day. Sometimes six to eight. And just absolutely love it. One of my favorite parts of living here. And you you don't need to be a hiker to be able to get out and get your steps in. Yeah. And and they're more accessible for you as you as you age. you know, hiking up the mountain becomes challenging after a certain point for some people or most people. But the greenway is accessible. It's accessible on wheels, so you'll be able to access nature for a long time to come. Yeah. Yeah. For those of you that are still hiking, right? Like the degree of difficulty on our hiking is different than say if you're over in the Rockies, right? Just from a base level. But we also have a wide variety in what we do offer. So, there's some real easy I mean, I took my kids when they were four and five, you know, like granted they wanted to climb over everything, but you know, you know how a four-year-old thinks they can do everything. They really can't. So, if they can do the trail, just about anybody who's mobile can do the trail. And there's a lot of options, gorgeous overlooks, and they're all over town. You have hiking in Madison, you have it all over Huntsville, you have it out at Keel Mountain. Like, there's so many different areas to go. Variety is really important, too. And they're just so easily accessible no matter where you live in the area. Absolutely. And the one last thing I want to touch on is I don't know when I think of retirement I think I think of boats. I do. My grandpa retired and he had a boat and he was his pride and joy. And Lake Guntersville is very accessible from here and it is one of the top bass fishing destinations in the country. So if that is something that you are looking to do in retirement, that's something that's very available. --- Page 8 --- Absolutely. And if you're going, call me. I love to fish. Grew up fishing all these lakes. I'm not saying I'm good at it. I'm saying I enjoy doing it. Wheeler Lake's another great location. And you have a lot of places to input boats. So, if you're over on Lake Guntersville, their downtown's gorgeous. They redid it a couple years ago. There's Guntersville State Park where you can even just rent like a pontoon boat to go out for a day. Several boat launches. You get over on the Wheeler side and the river side of things. And you've got Ditto Boat Landing down in South Huntsville. You got the Triana boat launch. And then you get over towards Decatur where there's several boat launches as well. Then you're over on Wheeler River. And then you got the Tennessee River runs all the way across the northern part of the state. And then we have lakes that are not that far away that are further south like Smith Lake. So it is a great area if you like fishing, sport, you know. Yeah. Jet skiing, skiing, so many different things you can do on our waterways. Yeah. It's a great place to retire if you like holding on to your money, having fun, and feeling safe. Absolutely. And I mean, we have to talk a little bit too, touch on some of the sporting events, right? We have some great minor league teams here and we're within two-hour drive. There's some great pro teams. So, you know, we have my favorites are the Huntsville Havoc and the Trash Pandas. I love going to watch both of those play. Trash Pandas are a little pricey for me, but I really do enjoy it. It's a great experience. Huntsville Havoc, though, it has my heart. Their fans are the best fans in the US. They are absolute hooligans, and I love it. So, Yeah. So, you got to tell everyone what sports these are because they don't know. These are not national teams. Sure. Sure. Sure. I I've seen a lot of Trash Pandas hats out there, though. I think they made a splash. So, the Trash Pandas are our AA ball team. They feed up into the Angels organization. And then the Huntsville Havoc is our minor league hockey team. Yeah. And then we have I believe they call it it's the soccer team. They don't like to be called minor league. They like to be called Next. So, but anyway, we do have the Huntsville Football Club that came in the last couple years. They've done phenomenal. People love them. I mean, they had diehard fans on day one and, they've really done a phenomenal job, coming into this market. So, yeah, we just have so much going on, so many things here to do, so low cost. We have so many music and art festivals throughout the year. And these are like the big things. These are the things where you know it's paid parking. You're going to come into town for the day today. The farmers markets, the festivals, the Lowe Mill, the music in the park, the movies in the park. There's just so many of these things and so many of them are free. Yeah. And you know, once you're retired, you can just hang out and do this stuff. I probably do do something like once a month, but as a retiree here, you get to enjoy it all. Absolutely. My favorite comment I see on any video we ever do, especially our short forms are like, "Yeah, but it's in Alabama." And what it is these people are thinking of 20 years ago when there wasn't anything to do and you did have to sit there and watch the grass grow and they just they're ignorant and that's okay. That's why we make these videos to educate people in the area. And there it is surprising how much there is to do here. And it was actually a concern of mine moving back was am I going to be bored? Yeah. And I I don't feel like I've had a boring day in the last seven years. Well, I also think that if you haven't been to Alabama, you have a picture of it in your head that's pretty different than modern Alabama. And I I mean I it's Alabama's pretty and it's not flat. Let's just get that out of the way. So, I think that like it's the outdoors here are actually really really compelling and people just don't have a picture in their --- Page 9 --- head of what that looks like. Agreed. Well guys, I think we covered as much as we can cover. You know, if we go we go anymore and we're really getting into what are you doing on Tuesday. So, thanks for watching. We appreciate it. We'll catch you on the next one. Thank you. Thanks for watching or listening. You can always catch us on audio on wherever you get your podcast be Spotify, Apple, or you can watch our video on YouTube. Really appreciate you guys being here. Ask that you subscribe so we can keep you informed of everything going on here in Huntsville.